About this Show

Book TV

Cita Stelzer Education. (2013) 'Dinner With Churchill Policy-Making at the Dinner Table.'

NETWORK

DURATION
01:30:00

RATING

SCANNED IN
San Francisco, CA, USA

SOURCE
Comcast Cable

TUNER
Channel 17 (141 MHz)

VIDEO CODEC
mpeg2video

AUDIO CODEC
ac3

PIXEL WIDTH
704

PIXEL HEIGHT
480

TOPIC FREQUENCY

Carson 21, New Mexico 13, New York 11, Washington 7, U.s. 5, Britain 4, Mexico 4, San Diego 4, London 4, United States 4, Joseph Pulitzer 4, Us 3, Europe 3, America 3, Randy 2, Spanish 2, Roosevelt 2, Mrs. Nesbitt 2, Obama 2, Missouri 2,
Borrow a DVD
of this show
  CSPAN    Book TV    Cita Stelzer  Education.  (2013) 'Dinner With  
   Churchill Policy-Making at the Dinner Table.'  

    February 3, 2013
    7:30 - 9:00pm EST  

7:30pm
people try to become journalists and have to figuratively the pulitzer figured out a way to make it work. the next pulitzer may come out at the school he created. the other is the pulitzer prize. they were journalists and newspapers and writers and artists and other people for great contributions. these two aspects. it of course changes your life. now you know what the first three words because pulitzer prize winner passed away. that reflects the power of that price, a century still honoring people using pulitzer same. it does something that shares of the nobel peace prize. if you look carefully, nobel peace prizes given to people in danger, for democracy trying to
7:31pm
bring about peace and dangerous place like northern ireland. the reason the price is given because you're not going to go and fascinate somebody who just won the nobel peace prize. it's bringing world attention. the most significant pulitzer prize is the one for public service been given to newspapers daringly covering something the community didn't want them to cover. the journalists are ostracized, the local towns often pull out their advertisements and the newspaper's right about some lame it could be a scandal, but the community doesn't want to hear about it. when i got the pulitzer prize, it's a recognition, national recognition and in a sense provides the same umbrella of protection to people who are daring. >> postservice and extraordinarily significant
7:32pm
person who still to this day affects our lives. jessica child may recognize they have a mannerism from their father or mother or habits, he said he say andesite another. he recognized the series. with the culture need to understand how this would have today, when you leap pulitzer you understand the traits we have about consumption is, understanding is, a form of entertainment. these radical notions from his time we inherited to build our society. the other thing perhaps really important in a seismic change going on at the american media. pulitzer hammered away the newspaper is not just a business. it's a public service aspect that a democracy cannot function without an informed public, that somebody has to be at the school
7:33pm
board meeting at 2:00 in the morning and asked users to the next school. as for pressuring sudan, there are no people at those meetings keep an eye on things. the press ultimately likes the darkest recesses and we know the hardships of poverty, whether we want to or not because of the press. we know corruption and it gets fixed because of the press. we know with on the public agenda, sometimes too much like the fiscal cliff over and over again. these are critically important roles the press plays. it's a reminder that these are businesses run by "the new york times," the "washington post," but they performed this enormously civic action of informing us. the question we deal with his diocese papers no longer support themselves, what will come next? that will be part of what i hope people will take away. >> for more information, santa
7:34pm
fe, new mexico and other cities local content vehicles. go to c-span.org/local content. >> up next, someone talks about dinners hosted by winston churchill during and after world war ii, which is used to
7:35pm
persuade world were leaders on various matters. it's about 45 minutes. >> good evening. thank you for coming. i'm delighted to see you here to talk about my new book, "dinner with churchill: policy-making at the dinner table." since i book is about the importance of dinner, i will be brief. i just want to whet your appetite so that go buy my book. those try another sentence. i have lived with winston churchill for four years and it was wonderful, even though that took place in the frigid archives at churchill college. i'm often asked ray got the idea for another book on churchill to ask the thousands are to britain.
7:36pm
when i read about this fascinating man and his important accomplishments were achieved at dinners. sometimes that lunch is. as i began to wonder why that was so come away most of the deal struck as the famous international conferences held during world war ii were made at or facilitated by dinners at which the leaders were more relaxed and informal session. so i began digging into the churchill archives. not only did i find the more famous dinners with presidents roosevelt and truman done with stalin, but the details of churchill churchill setting the stage for generous with his generals, political friends and foes, leading academics and a host of interesting people. his dinners usually pretty 10 to 15 people and very often members of his own family. these dinners is the right description is churchill booked to perform at these affairs.
7:37pm
you have the company and the entertainment and buddhist gas. at one dinner with great exuberance, using wineglasses and decanters to show the position of the ships and blowing smoke from his cigar to imitate the cannon fire. it would have been wonderful to have been there. the topics are churchill's table were wide ranging, hot and cold backups, floating harbors, movies. that hamilton woman was a great favorite of churchill's and of course politics and curiosity was boundless. many guys record in their diuresis conversations, repeated his anecdotes and commented on the citysearch. in addition, i found hundreds of bills at the london hotels, with guest lists, amended wineglass come in many batters churchill complaining about overbuilding,
7:38pm
think imprint circuits of food and wine, ranging tips for hotel waiters. all in the archives, all set out in my book. i produced many menus in my book in case any of you want to try to duplicate one or two at a special party at home. the wine list might be harder for you to replicate than 70 decades is churchill place disorders. i've also noted his musical choices should should be amended to higher for your churchill party. i wrote about all of this because they shed light on the care churchill took to make this project is coming to sell policies. they also serve requirements in such remote places as tehran, casablanca and go code. i describe his choice of venue cigars to prolong after dinner discussions. my research told me what he ate and what each rank and with him and how it interacted with staff and with the british people
7:39pm
during the war. somehow make your return to reality. a human being the definite reaction, very negative reactions to white house cooking, mix cocktails served by hosts across the world. to keep cigars which the u.s. military tried to get away with giving, to arguments from generals and tea diet plans and suggestions from his wife. these were largely ignored, especially one that involves eating only tomatoes. as i dug into these materials, it became clear that for some of the churchill's great conversational skills and ability to create a congenial setting, mills had an advantage over most meetings. they could be as long as he liked them in the case of dinners could run into the wee hours for church gathers strength another's tired. his daughter mary had dinner conversations often became so extended that mealtime tended to
7:40pm
prolong themselves into the afternoon or evening with months lasting sometimes until half past three. a cynical evening, let's say, the prime minister's country has to begin at 8:30 bush and the in the drawing room. cigars after the ladies were excused. when they rejoined the ladies 20 minutes or hats or later, a movie would be shown, even in wartime until about midnight when churchill would announce now to work in the dictated work until two or 3:00 in the morning and the next morning he would wake at 7:00 a.m. to start work again in bed, surrounded by step and military personnel until lunch. the more i read reports of these meals by those lucky enough to attend them, the clearer it became these are work e-mails, not social occasions. other churchill hugely enjoyed them come eat above company.
7:41pm
churchillian sours at the table to educate others about policies to persuade them to go along omar for the latest political and social gossett. and get news the world. remember there was no 24 hour news cycle in those days and private reports about plague us were often the best source of what was going on in the soviet union. his guests came from all walks of life although during the board they were the military politicians, british and american amateur show thought he could tolerate it, he once in a while how to dine at goal. but there is always a purpose to the dinners, to advance his country centuries to explain, to learn, exchange information. it is the conversation that mattered, setting the table method with a stage at which he could best perform. here's just two examples but
7:42pm
important purposes and outcomes. white house in december 1941, more about this later, and the second important dinner and a 242 and churchill after several long, grueling and dangerous place to avoid german fighters in the air flew to moscow to meet someone for the first time. churchill had to bring a message to repeat a second front in 1942, and ally friend to divert german troops from soviet front lines. churchill buys it took the u.s. ambassador with him to show that the allies were united in this important strategic decision. after a full day of meeting, stalin invited churchill for a good idea and are it was a dinner that was. just a two-man interpreters serving themselves in the kremlin from a full banquet, enough or 30 people topped off with a's head. stalin up in his knife, cleanup
7:43pm
ahead, scraped a piece of me, which he offered a churchill on the end of his knife. churchill politely refused, not able to show discussed was the ally, the commented later that the food was filthy. churchill got what he wanted. stalin agreed to the strategy. let me spend a few minutes when i say churchill's attention to detail is stunning. he designed a table in this country home. it was to be around and six feet in diameter. he told his wife to order chairs with arms to allow for relaxation to ease the conversation and permit long periods of time. and a better, he wrote, one does not want the dining room chairs spreading itself or it sounds as if it were a plant. she digested his dissertation.
7:44pm
he always planned this evening to make sure the conversation flowed. and my book, there is an excerpt from his long mama on the proper design of dining rooms. so if any of you, let me know about issue copy of this memo. in 1909, to deliver churchill's body house in london. his mother decorated it and churchill added to dining room at the back of the house. tinplated coke, teammates and a butler. blake jenkins, a good biographer said of churchill, he was not mostly pitted bilateral conversations, but with the table he could often be brilliant. if i could die in the once a week, there'd be no trouble churchill said. the british and commonwealth countries that do not war for over a year. when pearl harbor was attacked.
7:45pm
churchill mail he would ensure america would not concentrate on fighting japan person said of hitler in europe. churchill once decided to travel to washington to meet with roosevelt and move into the white house for three weeks. was this the beginning of the special relationship? perhaps. now the british had a formidable ally when churchill and roosevelt in the white house, sharing every meal. they agreed among other things to establish a combined chiefs of staff. à la terry status from each of the services could work together with counterparts, all policies and strategies shared between the two countries. they set up a structure that would prosecute the war. it's agreed agreed by almost everyone at the roosevelt white house that the cook, not shy from the state was the worst cook in history.
7:46pm
henrietta nesbitt's menus included mushrooms, boat broccoli is, bavarian cream pie, molded jell-o, shredded cheese with tomatoes. out of fashion to shirley and was the ballot count per pair. even fdr complained about her food, the risk in the jobs. no wonder president roosevelt look forward to his famous children's hour. the time of the next insert before dinner the two martinis. churchill is of course on his best behavior, so he could not have complained about the food or mixed cocktails, although one source says they saw the prime minister empty his martini glass into a nearby potted plant. another said he spit out the olives. churchill's only comment on weight has food came at price for opinion of the favorite
7:47pm
knuckles. he did finally admit they were a bit slimy. british gas having the data of it like mad in the white house come a few times that once according to mrs. nixon's, to ask everyone in the u.s. at home to british pub one night per week as a rationing. mrs. nesbitt served chicken à la king two or three times a week, mr. roosevelt's discussed. but the british gas loved as sugarless ration of bread except for churchill who did not like his chicken asked about. one quick word about churchill's coat about it at all coach for the churchill family in the 1930s ended with the churchill into downing street and stayed with the family until 1953. when churchill was again prime minister she was a superb and unflappable cloak.
7:48pm
she never churchill liked and she cut it for him, i mrs. nesbitt. despite the bombing of london and the ritchie implant and gas, she took her churchill called that her world. churchill was a defective knockoff of the tree. his mother zacarias attic and new york have been a much admired society hostess in london. she was famous for writing on political enemies to dinner and reading that as to facilitate discussion. churchill once praised his mother by saying she had left no cutlet uncooked. churchill must've learned early on how to manage generic for its own purposes. in the book i describe how he deploys his attention to detail. at his birthday party in tehran in 1943, he arrange seating themselves.
7:49pm
he had a table that could accommodate the 28th at chs in. he then had a staff sit down to see how to gather or far apart as to be. imagine staffers spreading the others, watching churchill to make sure this evening was the way he wanted it. at this important dinner, churchill would meet with president truman for the first time. churchill amended the menu to add another course, ham salad. and nobody knows what he had in mind when he added that course to the menu. a further thought i interpreters. should they send the trainers say the behind the participants? churchill decided to place interpreters slightly behind, not at the dinner table. this arrangement once again facilitated the conversation. but they had a few words about this rather rotund man like two
7:50pm
d. the answer is churchill explains simple food perfectly cooked. no french sauces, no fancy pies, no concoctions. churchill did not like his chicken messed about with. his favorite meal would be clear consommé or turtle soup, how to be good. , perhaps smoked salmon, meets, restrict and from that game season rare roast beef. he was after a english and for dessert, which are show called his putting, ice cream and perhaps chocolate sauce and then he peeled pear. another word on consommé, which churchill loved. at the end of the working day, say 2:00 a.m., the prime minister would say stoop outside very loudly.
7:51pm
to start her day. i was a signal to working day was over. the secretaries could leave to begin taping of today's mouse and he would have his cold jelly consommé, which he always say before going to bed. churchill loved all games, especially inebriate kisan aspirant. at one dinner he said quote, this goose was a friend of mine. and all my research into churchill's life, and never found a mention of a vegetable and he made fun of vegetarians, whom he called not eaters. well, gentlemen, if you fish toying with your hebrew, we look anon with more important matters. i'll do not eaters i've ever have died early after a long period of senile decay.
7:52pm
another churchill favorite food was irish stew with plenty of finance and surprisingly, sometimes pineapple. this is a male churchill served to general eisenhower when they planned the invasion of europe. and of course caviar. churchill loved caviar. he was thrilled when stalin sent him caviar or harry hawkins for a caviar back as a gift from the soviet union. churchill a small portion. when traveling he had meal served on his tummy time, not on the clocks. churchill loved picnics. whatever the place or the weather, even in wartime is a wonderful photo showing churchill in a three-piece suit enjoying a picnic sitting on a rock by the side of the road. he picnickers roosevelt hyde park. he picnic on the banks but these
7:53pm
generals in the north african desert with friends. he established his own picnic rituals, enthusiastically singing old indian army toast and calling for verses that could only be separated by picnics. much has been said about churchill and alcohol, some other true, most not, some exaggerated. i go into detail about churchill's trinket habits. churchill had been told -- roosevelt had mental churchill was a job come to church one or two critics repeated. churchill did consume more alcohol than we are used to today, but not a great deal bystanders of his contemporaries and drink did not affect him or his work. churchill drank a small amount of whiskey with soda, no ice in a class about this big. his staff, not flash.
7:54pm
at lunch and dinner he drank half a bottle of champagne. that's a different size in half bottles we know, smaller than ours today. so if they bring to your. let's talk about champagne, churchill's favorite drink. we are not sure when they first discovered champagne, but he prefers that champagne to all the others. his favorite vintage with a 1928 on each of his birth days, sent in a case of the 1928 intel supplies ran out in 1953. a churchill died in 1965, he'd only gone through the 1934 vintage. after his death, ordered all bottles imported to britain would have a black strip across the bottle. every dinner in every important occasion throughout his life was marked for champagne. after dinner, churchill drank
7:55pm
randy come and meet. by the way, early in his life the doctor had recommended randy and set of ports. this is one of the few times he followed that berserkers. perhaps knowing port could be bad for what he called his indy, his indigestion, something he suffered from occasionally, which is not surprising given the meals he had with the likes of stalin. by modern standards, this is a large amount of alcohol, but churchill discovered and hesitated. i've read many journals and diaries and many a great alcohol enhances enjoyment in this phenomenal ability to talk. at one point, churchill s. hopkins, wife of water in his quest tasted so funny. hopkins told him it tasted funny because there is no whiskey in it. he was not affected by alcohol
7:56pm
and it never interfered with his work. padilla been prime minister during the war and minister of defense citibank capacity to? i think not. only two people wrote the churchill was from alcohol. most of a staff member reported to stalin but he thought stalin wanted to hear at the second was a private secretary to anthony eaton, who also would've liked to report to his boss that churchill was struck, but churchill would have never been able to work as he did for so many years and so successfully of alcohol or take a hold of. churchill very much enjoyed the legend of his drinking added by the bursting of the consumed, and macho habit was habit which he indulge a tough british bulldog who could drink with the best of them, down at the pub with a local as it's as britain. another churchill favorite indulgence, cigars. he had three uses for cigars.
7:57pm
the first was sheer pleasure, enjoyment of the flavor of a good cigar and the feeling of relaxation such a smoke brings you to think it the trademark. churchill is true sure to a politician not to realize his cigar had become an iconic symbol of his great in the face of adversity. just as fdr cigarette holder had become the american president symbol. turn it devastated area clash between his teeth are in his hand as he waved at the crowd, somehow showed both he and britain were indomitable. the third use was to extend the length of dinners at which he planned to sell policy among the states and come a scientists, soldiers, friends and opponents hit after dinner, light a cigar and pass around others and
7:58pm
recount on good talk at the time and others are exhausted that he was at his best. this is not always appreciated by the admirals and generals often included on its guest list, but all in all was a part of dinner with churchill that most guys treasured and remembered and wrote about. there's a wonderful story about cigars in churchill's personal security, but it's too long to go into tonight. i do hope you read it. a word about rationing, during the war years, food and other commodities are strictly rationed. how to churchill managed? first of all, he played are the rules of his own government. the prime minister's country house or at downing street requested extra rations him what was required dinner. his staff needed extra rations for the prime minister could get food for a strip to casa blanca.
7:59pm
any unused ration coupons for return to the government. the british people suffered under rationing and churchill wanted them to see he to be subject to the law, but churchill did an essay from gifts from fans around the world and at home. some british people had homegrown food to share with their prime minister. the kingston came from his lands, others send fish on their streams or cheese made on their farms. president roosevelt sent food parcels of marshal tito sent to case a plum brandy. tangerines came from lisbon and yams from an american empire and thousands of cigars all over the world. churchill worried about the effects of rationing on the peoples energy volvos, diets, morale, spirit. you read about everything. no detail is too trivial.
8:00pm
for example, he worried british would not get enough sugar to get through the winter. when he was asked by staff what they should do about providing fish, he declared his policy to be quote up most fish. the supply of salt and vinegar remained stable, important for chips or french fries as they call them. i do hope you will read my book with much new information about the wit and wisdom of winston churchill. there's also a funny story, which is too complicated to tell you about here. ..
8:01pm
thank you. [applause] >> we mentioned everyone, but in order to have your questions answered, please go to the microphone. please wait until you are recognized. the microphone will come to your area. okay? all right. >> are there any questions or comments? >> yes? >> okay, thank you so much, and
8:02pm
welcome to arizona. you need a reference to the second front in the west. as i understand it, in 1942, the americans and british opened up north africa and push the germans out of north africa. then they begin an invasion of the european peninsula and sicily, italy. was stalin referring to an invasion of northern france when he said a second front? was there some intense conversations on this topic? were they really got into the meat of it? >> the command staff knew that there would not be a second front in europe in 1942. that is what they talked about. the first night of that meeting, stalin was very unhappy. the dinner ended on a sour note.
8:03pm
the second time was a little different. it is the or at night that i referred to. that is when churchill said that there could not be won. and someone had to agree. >> okay, inc. you. 1943. >> yes. >> i know that even on wikipedia, there was mention about your book. and the fact that churchill had moved into the white house for three weeks. and i just found out unbelievable. that must've really been a fun time. but you said when you were talking that there were two dinners or events and one of them involved the white house in 1941. >> yes, the one you are referring to a churchill.
8:04pm
a great danger was to take a ship to washington and land there. they moved into the white house and stayed there for three weeks. except for a chip to canada for a speech or if he lived in the white house in the lincoln bedroom. mrs. roosevelt was not thrilled with this arrangement, it wasn't just the president that kept up late. there are some wonderful stories in the book about what people thought about. it's a very humorous story. >> i think it was fascinating. you know, it's like a president obama goes overseas for five
8:05pm
days, everyone goes crazy. >> yes, when president obama goes, people pay attention and we have mass media. the back then, it was december 20, 1941. >> yes? >> is not really a question but a comment. i was reading about how much they were eating and he had access to certain things in the book with a rationing. so it redeem him. i'm so glad they put that there. i kind of wish it was earlier. >> thank you. well, it was an important chapter. it showed a part of churchill's character it was very important. a part of that many other people have in common with him. are there any other questions? >> churchill was known for being
8:06pm
an excellent entertainer. did you find bills that he paid for everything? he was kind of that famous for not paying for food and various other things in his life though. >> i don't know about that, but most of the bills that i have seen, and i have seen many of them, aren't you that they are paid. all of the important it is that he had for his son's 21st birthday, they were paid for. that is an interesting question. i am not clear when the dinner was and when the bill is paid. you certainly bring up an interesting point. but they are all paid and they are all stamped and saved. it's not just a few of them, but their are many. there are hundreds of them. everything is saved at the archives. i don't know about the food.
8:07pm
>> [inaudible question] >> and by that time, churchill knew what had been equal allies is no longer true in the americans were really, they should have president eisenhower being their leader. by that time, it was clear that the americans had production with a number of army people that we had. it had to be eisenhower and not a british general. thank you very much. >> is there a nonfiction author or book you'd like to see featured on the tv? send us an e-mail at booktv@c-span.org or tweet us
8:08pm
at booktv. at age 65, she was the oldest first lady when her husband became president. but she never set foot in washington. her husband, andrew harrison, died one month after his inauguration. meet anna harrison and the other will women who served serve as first lady. over 44 administrations. in c-span's new original series first ladies, their public and private lives, interests, and influences on the president. season one against presidents' day, the 18th at 9:00 p.m. eastern and the epic on the spam, c-span radio, and c-span.org. now more from santa fe, new mexico. santa fe boasts a rich historical and literary culture. developed with comcast, we take a tour of collected works
8:09pm
bookstore. one of santa fe's 17 independent bookstores. >> welcome to collected works bookstore and coffeehouse. we are in santa fe, new mexico. my name is dorothy massey. my daughter and co-owner, mary wilson, and i've come have owned collected works of its 18 of 35 years in age of santa fe's oldest and best, we think, bookstore and coffeehouse in the city. we had a population of 80,000 people and we support no less than 17 independent bookstores are you how does collected works and the other 16 bookstores stay afloat? well, it's not easy. we all work very hard for you we work hard at what we do. we are mutually supportive is a community of bookstore owners. the city itself is tri-cultural with an amazing amount of very
8:10pm
well read, literary people. we boast more authors and poets, both genuine and wannabes, in most communities. and we have a combination of six major organizations. an incredible museum system exists here. wonderful art, ballet, opera. it is a rich cultural city. the people that live here and the people that visit here come out and support that culture in all of its forms. i think what sets collected works apart is the fact that we really have this beautiful state. we are so fortunate to be here. we have the ability to become a community center.
8:11pm
we have a very active children's program, we are not only in schools and rotary club and other endeavors, but we are also running our own story hours here. we have the space to do that. we have the space in the coffeehouse to donate out all of the city for their special events. we do not charge for them. it gets people into the store. it is not totally kindness on our part, but it does bring people into the store and it gives the community a sense that this is their story, that they belong here, and we belong to them. the first thing that is often said is that, it's not like a bookstore. [laughter] people enjoy that. they enjoy the fact that they can come here and congregate. you can go into a store and you can see a sweater and if you like it, you can pay for to mark
8:12pm
out. but 90% of the time, you haven't read the product that you're buying when you're in a bookstore. so there's a great sense of mutual trust and excitement in order to be able to help people that visit a store. old local and also litters. we have to be able to have barbara help us out as well. everyone here is so well read. it has been such an interesting four years since the recession began. moving here and enlarging the store, obviously competing head to head with internet sales. which, at least in the state of new mexico, as we speak now, they still do not charge sales tax. we cannot afford to give the
8:13pm
discounts and we are required to collect the tax. so we are not playing on a level level playing field. however, saying all of that, i truly believe that the public perception of giant corporations is changing. people understand the importance of supporting local endeavors which hires local people and pays local taxes and is involved with the local community. i am so proud of the 15 colleagues at work here. we have a remarkable scientific community here, and of course in los alamos. they lost their independent bookstore about a month ago. we do a great deal with science and theory and a great deal with philosophy. this is a deeply religious city. religion does well.
8:14pm
this wall behind the paperback fiction combat rolls out here on a steady basis. both for locals and visitors who want something light to read. the author breakfast meats here all winter long before the metropolitan opera, which comes to santa fe along with millions of other viewers across the world. there is a breakfast and a lecture here. we do a lot with music and arts. the history of santa fe is vivid with two major cultures. native american, hispanic, and the anglo. now, that is actually oversimplifying things, but each one carries such a heritage that the writers are anxious to share. we boast the best of the young
8:15pm
native american writers working today. we do events here. we boast the best spanish colonial art market. we sell books at the indian market, which is the largest art market in the world. for many years we have sold looks in the spanish market. again, the largest hispanic market in the world. we are falling all over each other but the sharing and the support that is universal makes it such a wonderfully exciting place to be. >> in the very early day, santa fe was a mecca for artist who were freethinking. a lot of people left the more strict societies of the east in order to practice their religion and lifestyle, their
8:16pm
intellectual thoughts, they will share with whatever friends or acquaintances they want to. it has always been a very interesting place for people who are really thinking for themselves. it is only natural that the gorgeousness of the scenery, the light that attracts the photographers and artists, and the performing artist, who managed to dance and sing at 7000 feet above sea level, it's quite amazing. the availability of a small-town makes it easy for people to become intimately acquainted with those in the arts. to serve on boards fairly quickly. to attend events, to meet artists. the cross culture of visual and performing arts and literary arts is just amazing.
8:17pm
we live in the wonderful state. it is such a blessing to be here. as you can see from these original books, people come here to read these books. many people helped to produce this particular breed dutiful but. collected works sold this book at the event. these leftovers went to the city, extra stock. it then went as part of a 50 city program down to mexico in which children in mexico. so there you have the literary arts, the performing arts, the educational value, and the city cultural outreach. all in one volume.
8:18pm
we have so many great customers. they say, i wish you had this book or that the grid very often we will get a copy for the store. whatever you are trying to buy, talk to the people, talk to your neighbors. >> tv recently explored the literary culture of santa fe, new mexico. keep watching all weekend long for more from our area. >> hello, i am rob dean. i am the editor of the local newspaper that is 164 years old. we are in the offices of the
8:19pm
"santa fe new mexican." i am also the author of "santa fe, its 400th year: exploring the past, defining the future." the book had a humble beginning. it was not, at first, design is about grid it began as a series of newspaper stories to commemorate the 400th anniversary of the founding of santa fe. in 1959, the publisher and editor had the presence of mind to ask a pulitzer-winning novelist to write about the history as it emerges through the pages of the "santa fe new mexican." he published the autobiography of santa fe, the southwestern town. at that time, a hundred years of news was reported in.
8:20pm
the book that we published in 2010 serve as a nice bookend for that volume. again, with the same spirit. the 400 years of history of santa fe was the bedrock of this series of stories that became this book. what we identified the 400 years of history is a number of themes or trends that have been constant currents through our history. it is broken into 12 chapters. we have all of these small event in big events to put the history of santa fe and its culture and context. the interception of cultures is one of the identifying features.
8:21pm
its long tradition of establishing diversity is a big factor. the exercise of local power and the development of public policy is another thing. the history of santa fe is very distinctive. for one thing, santa fe became a u.s. territory in 1848. it was a territory or at very long time. the country in washington were reluctant to make santa fe estate. that eventually happened in 19123 new mexico existed as a territory for so long. in so many ways, it doesn't seem to fit, the rest of the country. in fact, santa fe for a long
8:22pm
time has described itself this way. santa fe was scored by the spanish coming from the south. not from the anglos coming from the east to the west. that is different. this is an area that is closely tied to the catholic church. also the establishment of the community of santa fe is inseparable. of course, this is a spanish-speaking territory and populated mostly by people of hispanic your kids. there were questions from the east about how new mexico in santa fe fit the definition. the flipside is that there was a
8:23pm
constant curiosity about whether santa fe and new mexico got along. and there was indeed resistance. what is going on today with this rich and diverse body of communities in santa fe, well, we constructed that on top of this foundation of faith being part of the history from the very start. santa fe has been the subject of many books by many writers, a diverse range of writers. this book has a terrific bibliography for anyone who wants to read more about santa fe. >> next, hampton sides sat down to discuss his book "blood and
8:24pm
thunder: the epic story of kit carson and the conquest of the american west". >> carson is one of those guys that is almost better known for his fictional aspect. i mean, this was a guy that was the subject of hundred of comic books and these original novels that will called "blood and thunder" and bad tv shows and movies. what we know about this guy is skewed and muddied by the kulik of history of fictionalizing. so i decided to write a book about him, i wanted to peel back the layers of all of the fiction and try to get to the real guy. the real guy was, it turns out, infinitely more interesting than the fictional character. i just found that he was one of the characters that, even though
8:25pm
he was powerless in a sense, he was an illiterate runaway from missouri and he knew everyone in the west, he intercepted with all of these historical figures and was intimately involved in exploration and the west. he was in the thick of history in an intimate way. i decided to devote a book in about four or five years of my life to figure out who this guy was. he came out here in a way to escape america. he was a runaway. he had heard all the stories about the wild west and wanted to be one of these mountain man. he came out to new mexico, he intercepted with these guys, he
8:26pm
became an intimate part of their world, which was mainly french-based culture. he learned french and became fluent in french. he lived with these guys and one river systems of the west. basically hunting beaver pelt. because he knew all the rivers, because that was the key to understanding the typography and understanding how to get around here, the u.s. topographical cord spends time under john freeman to explore the west and they needed a guide. these mountain men knew the west better than anyone. so he hired him as a guide. kit carson was very well-prepared on expeditions. he saved many lives and kept the expedition on track. so he became a three-month report, which became
8:27pm
best-selling books, he becomes kind of a hero in these stories. but no one could seem to find this guy. because he was living in new mexico. he was never coming back east. he was kind of this mythical character. people wanted to know a little bit more about. when the "blood and thunder" books became more famous and popular, kit carson was often the central character in the stories. the authors wrote terrible stories. i would dare you to read them. they are not going. these authors never really made any attempt to understand who the real kit carson was. they did not get to know him. kit carson hated these books because they were, you know, gross exaggerations.
8:28pm
and they set up this kind of caricature that he had to spend the rest of his life trying to live down. they would say things like kit carson was the kind of man that would kill two indians before breakfast. which was considered i guess, a good thing that. in fact, he was married to a native american. and he was a very close friend to many tribes in the west. these are the kinds of things that he had to spend most of the rest of his life living down. he did not understand where this is coming from. why people back east so desperately seemed to need this hero and this character who would personify a manifest destiny. whenever he went back east, people refused to believe that he was the real kit carson. real kit carson was 5-foot 4'", he was awkward around people, he will spent most of his life on a mule, so he had an awkward gait
8:29pm
that, you know, he was not as heroic action in your that was betrayed in the kit carson. people would say you are not the kind of kit carson that i am looking for. we were sorely disappointed. so i spent a lot of time in the book trying to explore in the ways in which carson tried to deal with this. it was a very awkward thing for him. with these books, he had another problem, which was he could not read him because he was illiterate. he had to have other people read these books to him, which was a source of embarrassment. it made it all the worse. there was one time in which this
8:30pm
intercepted with the real kit carson. that was when he had an assignment to find a white woman who had been kidnapped by apache. he followed the trail for closer to two weeks before he found her. the element of surprise was compromised and various things happen. she had been killed. when carson and his men went down to the campsite is that they're her belongings, what did they find? they found a book that she had evidently been reading. and with this book, the plot line of the book was that kit carson was sent out to go rescue a woman who had been kidnapped by indians.
8:31pm
so here she was, reading these books. she gets killed, and in the real story, carson was not able to save this woman. this just wanted him for the rest of his life. he ordered the book burned. he thought these "blood and thunder" books were terrible. this is one mythology intersects with reality in the story. when most famous stories that was told during his time that is actually true, you have to understand a lot of the stories are not true. the more you dig into them, the more you i'm that it's pretty suspicious. but one that is actually true is a battle near san diego called san pascual. and the american army had become surrounded by a californian army that was almost like don quixote or something.
8:32pm
remarkably proficient and they were just entering the american army. they were really good. the american soldiers were getting bored and just ripped to pieces, almost like a jousting thing in medieval times. they were completely surrounded in a matter of time before they were all going to be killed. kit carson was given the assignment to try to make it to san diego, where there was supposedly some marines out in the bay on a ship. and possibly go get help somehow. so at night, he went through this ring of mexican soldiers and in the course of slipping through, he lost his shoes. he had to walk 30 miles to san diego barefoot across this country that was unbelievably
8:33pm
difficult and thorny and full of cactus and so he does do this, he makes it to san diego, he makes it to the ship. they immediately taken to the infirmary, the theater is completely in tour now, he's just a mess, and he can't walk. but he gets there, the marines, and save the american army. carson is meanwhile in the hospital for three or four weeks because it's the become infected. and he never told the story, he never talked about it. it was something that he was always not able to do. there are stories like this throughout his life. where whenever there is something going on and the chips are down, somehow he gets an
8:34pm
assignment to fix the situation and he got. this is certainly one of the best known. by the end of his life, the transcontinental railroad is being built. most of the tribe that he's close to had been rounded up and sent to various reservations. his main impact, i think what he probably his most famous for is for one of the various things he did in his life, which was to round up the non-ho indians, really depending upon how you count the numbers among the tribes and bloglines. it is the largest tribe in the united states. exceeded in moving into a reservation 500 miles away and the disruption of the culture and thus longmont is something that is almost like it happened
8:35pm
yesterday. they hate him and they think that he is a genocidal character. everyone hates their conqueror. but their hatred of him is palpable. so he is a very controversial character here in the southwest. i was drawn. here is a guy that would subject all of these juvenile biographies, he is considered an american folk hero and eight genocidal maniac. so how do you reconcile these very different images. i structured the book about the arrival of the americans and to the southwest. especially during the time of the mountain in error, leading to expeditions into the west, finally the american army's
8:36pm
arrival during the mexican war. it shifts from native americans and their point of view come to the mexican point of view. and who is this new arrival, the new man. why are they here, what do they want but this is their country out here. part two is called a broken country. it looks out in the beginning of what you might call occupation. it is fairly straightforward. conquest is one thing, occupation is something different. certainly, as a nation, we have discovered that some learned this hard lesson. we have learned this in afghanistan and iraq, it is one thing to conquer people. at least on paper. it is an entirely different thing to try to occupy and
8:37pm
govern land, especially when it's as complicated as this. all of these different languages and religions and basically, for the first 50 years, certainly the first several decades, people back in washington were saying, what have we done here? we have conquered this plan, but we do not understand it and we cannot govern it. we should just give it to mexico. it is too hard -- it's too hard to run this place. there is so much violence, there was slavery and the hostagetaking. it was unfamiliar country that people in washington did not know what to do it. so that is part two. part three is really about -- it is about kit carson's role.
8:38pm
this is from the final act of his long career. it is probably what he is best known for. this sort of a campaign that he led into the non-ho country that resulted in the conquest and removal from their beloved land, and this great experiment that went on to try to force the not opposed to become settled down and christians living in this reservation on the border with texas. so it has many part -- it has many facets. he intersects with all these different aspects of history here. when i wrote the book, i was very concerned with the
8:39pm
political correct this. the book is constantly shifting its point of view. i am writing about the pueblo indians, the anglo-americans, the navajo, the mountain men, spanish, of course. you know, it is easy to put your foot -- actually, it is a minefield. i was worried that i was offending people left, right and center. there are only so many other cultures out here. but that didn't really happen. certainly there is some criticism, there is always criticism we write about this but. i was surprised by how many people have responded favorably to the book. even the navajo, who cannot stand kit carson, they asked me why i would write a book about someone as evil as genghis khan
8:40pm
and schiller. i gave a talk at shiprock, and a very nice woman stood up to ask me a question. she was holding the book and said i bought the book, i'm going to take it home, and i'm going to try to read it. but most likely i am going to use it for target practice. so she had a sense of humor about it or it but she spoke to the death depth of feeling that is out there against kit carson in indian country. i started up the book believing that carson was one of the great indian killers. that he was somehow a ferocious dislike in indian culture. when you get into his life, he relented is complicated. he spoke numerous indian
8:41pm
tongues, his wife was the love of his life and also an indian. they had two daughters are at this point as well. he cannot say that he is an indian hater. he is someone who aligns up with certain types. and he was sort of a bitter enemy against others. he did not think monolithic way about other indians. he talked about specific tribes. the last time that he affiliated himself with was, if you'd like to call it that, the spanish tribe of new mexico. he became spanish, almost.
8:42pm
his third and final wife was spanish. they converted to cap all of them. they spoke spanish. he dreamed in spanish, he thought in spanish. his last words before his death were in spanish. so the enemy of the spanish in those times, here in new mexico, the mortal enemy was not a ho. so i think that that is kind of the way that he thought in terms of tribal allegiances that ran deep. when he got be a summit to go round up the kit not a ho, he dd it. he did so in his tribal way. and i think that that explains his gumption.
8:43pm
>> indigenous indians one the land of santa fe back, but the spanish reclaim it and 1821 when mexico gained independence from spain and establish santa fe as the capital of the province of mexico. new mexico was ceded to the united states as part of the guadeloupe a treaty. booktv brings you more with the help of comcast coming up next. >> hello, i am james mcgrath morris, and we are standing behind some early printing presses. this seems like a perfect place to talk about the man who revolutionized american newspapers. people would react with
8:44pm
recognition when i told him that i was writing about joseph pulitzer. but then they weren't surprised because joseph pulitzer shares his love for the price he created, that was named after him, but very few people understand the fly. how has life whim. carnegie, morgan, rockefeller, all of these people, but joseph pulitzer played a critical moment in our history. he was a wonderful person. in his time we did not have the media that we had in his time. the notion of american checking news on their phones or watching c-span, these were things that that were cultivated during that time. the pulitzer not only played a
8:45pm
historically significant role, but the influence that he yielded is still with us today. people don't remember joseph pulitzer today as much, because in some way his congressman is a happenstance now. in the 19th century, we had news that was gathered in a different way. we don't rank in our day and age that it is a big wait to evaluate it the way that we have. many don't remember who carnegie or rockefeller was. yet, we drive across bridges made of steel, that is a carnegie gift. we used cars that use oil, that is a rockefeller gift. and we are consuming news that
8:46pm
were developed by people like joseph pulitzer. he came to the united states as a mercenary soldier in the civil war. he didn't really see any action. like many veterans after the war, he was unemployed. it is hard to reinvigorate people into the economy. he ended up in st. louis where he becomes confronted by a major german american who becomes a senator from new york. joseph pulitzer enters the world of press at that point. interesting in regards to modern-day immigrants. it is that kind of speed of immigration that we had in the 19th century when people were coming. he becomes fabulously successful . and he invented a very new form of journalism.
8:47pm
it is much like a modern-day surfer. what i mean is that if you go to a beach and look out the water beyond where the waves are breaking, men and women paddle out in the middle of the ocean. some perceive that that will be the best wave of the day, whereas others don't see it. well, in regards to joseph pulitzer, he wrote the title waves of social change. you were leaving the rural areas and come into the cities. women were making better progress. paper was being made at high speed. it became possible to print a newspaper in thousands of copies quickly. what happened was an afternoon
8:48pm
paper that could be sold to commuters that was entertaining to read, it contained economic information, it contained the latest news in the next day's papers were actually printing yesterday's news. and he did more than that. he discovered that there was this tremendous, that you could write up in a great way. in a way that charles dickens was writing about poor england. it was western journalism. like a broadway play, before they bring him to new york, pulitzer did the same thing. he brought his newspaper into new york city. he brought the bankrupt new york world and within months was making millions of dollars and revolutionized media at that time. he revolutionized journalism.
8:49pm
one thing that is an analogy for the importance is that culture created this world in new york and he will down to the lower east side where the masses of immigrants were coming in the 1880s and 1890s. they were seen as poor, dirty, all those kinds of things. joseph pulitzer didn't see them this way. he saw them as potential readers. he admonished reporters to write about their lives. the upper class, drinking their tea with their fingers in the air, they are missing the point. to the people in the lower east side, this was their lives being
8:50pm
for trade in print. in the summertime it was so hot in tenement holdings. people would go up to the roofs to breed at night. children would fall to their death, and this was chronicled. by writing about him, he was dignifying their lives. i asked people, if you were to take me to your house, i bet there was a clipping that you kept. your child a congressman at school, maybe an obituary. things that occurred as events regardless whether in print or not. so why do we keep these? because writing and print puts dignity actions. the lower east side class of people saw them as their friends who produce this kind of dignity. it was also the entry to america might area for little as a penny, you could get a paper as thick as a telephone book with
8:51pm
dress patterns, easy-to-understand stories, sealers layson of literature, we download music down to our phones, that is old stuff area you could even get sheet music in your paper. in return, two things happened that were really amazing. one is the statue of liberty is being given to the united states by different people. not by the french government, but by the people. in return, we were supposed to raise the money on our own. so the statute was very much part of that. so the story had an editorial said rainier pennies and nickels. i will put your name in the paper and thank you for it and we will raise the money. now, you have to understand that he was so trusted the lower
8:52pm
classes of new york, workers would come in with pennies and nickels. it exemplifies the relationship. the next thing is that your name will be listed for your contribution. the same paper that had the vanderbilt and morgan. there appear michael ashanti's name for having given money. so the social pedestal was billed this way in time. and in time, the statue of liberty was that. and this led to where the statue is in manhattan. joseph pulitzer has re-created american journalism. it is vital and important. the papers are being published every hours of the day. there is an important trial in new york, like the trial in 1905 with harry thor, the story was
8:53pm
handed to a copy boy, it was dictated to the paper comedy but print that out, put it out on the street it was so important. they would put the results in print. joseph pulitzer became the midwife of this whole world of journalism in which people turn to news or entertainment. they would ask, did you read that story in the new york world? evil would talk in a way that they all knew. so joseph pulitzer in he knew that he needed to build a new headquarters. the hotel lobby had kicked them out as a veteran of the civil war in 1865. so he came back, bought the
8:54pm
hotel, tore it down, even though the tallest building on the globe. at the top coming it was a dome shaped building at the top -- that's where the editorial offices were anti-put gold leaf on the top. the tallest building in the globe at this point. in new york, think of it in terms of the empire state building in the 20th century. that kind of a founder effect. just like he remade landscape of journalism, he did it with this building. this is the profound moment that we relate to that. when the immigrants kept coming into the new york harbor, this is something that people forget. when immigrants left steps of russia, there was no virgin air flight to go home and see her mother. you are betting your last dollar to you could reestablish your life in this new land.
8:55pm
as you enter the harbor, it is a tragic moment. you're going to have your first look at the new land. maybe the fog will clear and you will see the statue of liberty. the immigrants wouldn't exactly know the bit the pedestal was built by the tenets and lower class people, but then they would take a look at the new york city skyline. the city where they would learn english and get a foothold on american economic life. and if this run was right, it would glean off the dome of the world holding. not a monument to banking or manufacturing or other professions, but an individual who understood the new york world and the ticket to understanding how to get ahead and learning english. the ticket to american politics
8:56pm
are you that is the effect that joseph pulitzer had. he was a very difficult man to live with. he was sort of like the howard hughes of the 19th century. at the peak of his power, when he was the publisher of the most powerful and in the book, "the new york times", cnn, "the washington post", the ebs news all combined. the people read the world in the way that we read it now on cnn.com. so he suddenly at the height of his success started to go blind. sounded disturbed him, so he built a famous tower of silence for himself, room he could go in and get refuge from silence. his new york city mansion had a bedroom that was upgraded with separate walls, in case my glass
8:57pm
to keep the noise out. if you are invited to have once with him and you ate your celery celery in a fashion that was too noisy, you would get a memo the next day they met next time you have lunch with mr. joseph pulitzer, no crunch crunch, please. he had one of the year yachts and the engines were put in a special part of the yachts of the sound wouldn't return. he basically went back and forth across the world. one of the most being an individual, one of the most daring was a man who said you cannot flee e.g. a geographical solution with your
8:58pm
problems. so joseph pulitzer stands up when his daughter had her surgery, a leader had said, i'm suffering here, and so his self-centeredness, his social issues, it makes him an absolutely fascinating character and we are able to understand it better. but the thing i love best about the book is how his wife understood him more than anyone else there. as he went blind, she took a walk and locket he had with a painting of his mother. and she had a painter paint a really large version so before he could lose all his eyesight, he could still be his mother. later i per trade. at one point she does have an affair. i think the sense that readers have at that point it, you, go, girl. he was just so impossible. [laughter] so what is joseph pulitzer's
8:59pm
legacy? well, there are two parts of it. one is the journalism school at columbia university which is celebrating its centennial. it was very important. it just wasn't the university, i will admit that missouri has a journalism school is well named after him. but joseph pulitzer came to realize, that journalism, like any professional or field, he created a school for journalism. what is so important about his legacy is his solutions to the modern mass media problems today would come out of institutions were younger people are trying to become journalist. they have to figure out a way to make it work. in a sense, the next may come out of this school. that is one very important thing. the other thing is the pulitzer prize was money he left behind her were journalist

Terms of Use (10 Mar 2001)